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	<title>Fantastic Realities: The Journal &#187; Microsoft</title>
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	<link>http://www.fantastic-realities.com/studio_blog</link>
	<description>Fantastic Realites Studio Blog - Graphics, Design, Web, Tech, Musings &#38; Rants</description>
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		<title>Video Odyssey</title>
		<link>http://www.fantastic-realities.com/studio_blog/2009/09/video-odyssey/</link>
		<comments>http://www.fantastic-realities.com/studio_blog/2009/09/video-odyssey/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 00:17:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kurt Griffith</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Apple]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Authoring]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Blu-ray]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Clients]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[DVD]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Final Cut]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Flash]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Graphics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hardware]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[iMovie]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Microsoft]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[new media]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Powerpoint]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Video]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fantastic-realities.com/studio_blog/?p=72</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I admit I was crazy enough to take on a project that rapidly morphed from a PowerPoint  slideshow... to a Hi-Def Video project. Should have just said "NO"... past my tech-level. But I went and built the damn thing, and now faced with the technical problem of somehow burning a HD — presumably Blu-Ray — DVD that the client's HD DVD gear can actually read to toss up on their honking huge 1080i Lobby Plasma Screen. Read the cautionary tale.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="wp-caption aligncenter" style="width: 460px"><a href="http://www.rdpvideo.com/"><img title="RDP Video Productions High Definition Graphic" src="http://www.fantastic-realities.com/blog_images/HDcontent1B.jpg" alt="Image size, Standard NTSC vs Broadcast 1080i High Definition - Image from RDP Video Productions" width="450" height="199" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Image size, Standard NTSC vs Broadcast 1080i High Definition  Image source: RDP Video Productions</p></div>
<p><strong>I know I haven’t posted in a while</strong>, but I’ve been busy. Being booked solid is a <em>good</em> thing for a freelancer. Being booked solid while having a number of real life issues&#8230; not as comfortable, but comes with the territory of home and family. Being booked solid and being paid somewhat indifferently. That is certainly&#8230; <em>less</em> good, but seems a function of the current uncertain economy. But that’s neither here nor there. I also promised a piece on data protection and backups and the like, but this is still fresh in the Studio. So hitting it while I can rant with good store of fierce.</p>
<p>A couple of months ago, one of my best and favorite clients approached me about a PowerPoint project that they were having some problems with. So I agreed to take a look at it. Some of the problems hinged on the destination of the presentation— a giant 40-inch plasma screen going into their freshly redesigned lobby. I did the specs on the actual LCD, and discovered that it’s native resolution was 1080i&#8230; yes, <em><strong>1900 x 1080 pixels</strong></em>. Not huge by 300 dpi print standards. But HUMONGOUS at screen sizes. So I agreed to build the big graphics for the slides.</p>
<p>So far this is still straightforward. But was not destined to stay that way. The president of the company wanted some fairly upscale animation effects. And an animated title. So the project slipped into the Flash animation level. Recent versions of PowerPoint have the capability to display video on the slides, so I could export the Flash work to Quicktime or Flash Video files and embed them in the Flash Slides.</p>
<p>As things progressed. The client passed on another request. They want a scrolling type effect to run continuously at the bottom of the presentation, and have a picture-in-picture effect of CNN or something running in the bottom left corner of the screen.</p>
<p>This just became a <strong>Video Project</strong>.</p>
<p>Since it is going to an 1080i device, it has become a HIGH-DEFINITION Video Project.<span id="more-72"></span></p>
<p>To get this done, I have to get additional software. First off, the HD Version of <strong><a href="http://www.apple.com/ilife/imovie/" target="_blank">iMovie</a></strong>. Then it was on to eBay to get a compatible–and discontinued (Power Mac G5) version of <strong><a href="http://www.apple.com/finalcutexpress" target="_blank">Final Cut Express</a></strong> that had the desired feature set. But that done I went back to work and built the project. A few rounds of drafts, corrections and tweaks I had a final version.</p>
<p>Whoops. <em>No, I didn’t.</em></p>
<p>They were so happy with the overall look, they wanted not just their projects, but also their services and client testimonials, with differentiating graphics and more animation added.</p>
<p>Fine. Back to work and got the enhancements done. Of course this meant essentially a rewrite, rebuild and re-rendering of the video. The resulting product is not Pixar stuff by any means, but got the job done. Huzzah. The finished piece was just under 12 minutes long. Perfectly fine to keep a visitor in the lobby reasonably entertained and informed about my client’s company.</p>
<p>The Quicktime h.264 file was also nearly 8 GIGABYTES. <em>Uh-Oh.</em></p>
<p>Logistics issues loom. The night before I was to leave for a family trip, (yes freelancers do try to get away once in a while) I attempted to upload the file to their servers. After a nearly five hour upload, the server hangs the connection at  87%. This is worse than just dropping. Most FTP server can resume a dropped or interrupted upload. But a hang is &#8230; “<em>opps, I lost my mind there. So very sorry.</em>”  You have to cancel or force quit the file transfer and START OVER. There were tears, but in my defense it WAS late at night and I was very tired.  In the end, I stuffed it onto a Dual layer DVD Disc and express mailed the file to the client from on the road. Families of freelancers are long suffering and tolerant. In other words, awesome.</p>
<p>But still no joy. For some reason,  support for Qucktime Hi-Def on Windows, is at best grudgingly enabled by Microsoft. Sometimes works. Sometimes&#8230; THIS time, doesn’t. Could not play the file. Some of you have no doubt seen Windows Media, and Flash Video. Neither is ready for HD prime time either.</p>
<p>They want a “regular” DVD.</p>
<p>Okay. So we’ll make a DVD. Supposed to be easy, right? “Burn your own DVD Video’s!” all the software and computer flacks scream in an orgy of self-congratulatory marketing. There is a very healthy market for software that enables users to create and produce and add soundtracks and otherwise slice, dice and cuisinart their home (and amateur work ) camcorder and DVR video. And another busy market to rip, archive, burn and spit out CDs and DVDs. But the marriage is not all THAT happy.  With so many variables in the process, there are plenty of places in the chain for things to go wrong.</p>
<p>When I dived back into iMovie HD, I discovered that there was NO HD Disc-Burning option, and <a href="http://www.apple.com/ilife/idvd/" target="_blank">iDVD</a> did not support HD. The Disc created there was “kind of” Higher-definition standard Def., or about 720 Pixels tall. Looked like CRAP on the 40’ display. And they even looked crappy on our perfectly ordinary 24” television. Obviously NOT the answer.</p>
<p>In the process, burned a LOT of coasters. More on this later.</p>
<p>So it was back to the software store to get the most current update to Roxio’s Toast software package with an Blu-ray HD Option. [<a href="http://www.roxio.com/enu/products/toast/default.html" target="_blank">Roxio Toast 10 Pro</a>]  Since a blu-ray BURNER would be an expensive upgrade to my gear, I was also attracted by the option to burn HD-DVDs. This was Blu-Ray formatted HD content that would fit on a standard size DVD-R, up to about 30 min. of content in the smaller data space. So far so good.</p>
<p>After a few more coasters, had a disc. <em>Which refused to play on the client’s player</em>. Different discs &#8211; tried both +R and -R discs, both unsuccessful. I got a hold of the <a href="http://www.sharpusa.com/ForHome/HomeEntertainment/BluRayDisc.aspx" target="_blank">Sharp Aquos</a> tech specs and discovered that almost NO recordables were compatible with the player. And further research revealed that recordables have VERY poor playback success on Blu-Ray players. The format is just too intricate and finicky and the tech is <em>just too new</em>. I heard from a friend that when her brother purchased a wide screen at Best Buy, the sales person advised him AGAINST the Blu-ray player option, as they were getting lots of complaints about Blu-ray DVD not playing consistently. He said to wait a year or so till the standard settled down.</p>
<p>Steve Jobs in 2008 called the Blu-ray format a <a href="http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/steve-jobs-calls-blu-ray-a-bag-of-hurt/" target="_blank">“Bag of Hurt” when questioned about Bru-ray support in Mac OS X.</a> and on that year’s versions of Apple Laptops. Apple’s approach has been to embrace streaming video delivered via the internet, specifically content via iTunes and have <a href="http://theappleblog.com/2009/08/04/will-apple-ever-support-blu-ray/" target="_blank">de-emphasized HD video DVD playback</a> and burn support on the Mac. But times, and consumer tastes will eventually prevail.</p>
<p>And according to the Wikipedia summary of the format, that is part of the problem:</p>
<blockquote><p>“<em>the idea of using inexpensive DVD media became popular among individual users. A lower-capacity version of this format that uses single-layer 4.5GB DVD discs has been unofficially called BD5. Both formats </em>(BD9 and BD5)<em> are being used by individual users for recording high definition content onto recordable DVD media.[112][113]</em></p>
<p><em>Despite that BD9 format has been adopted as part of the BD-ROM basic format, <strong>none of existing Blu-Ray player models supports it explicitly</strong>. As such, the discs recorded in BD9 and BD5 formats are not guaranteed to be played on standard Blu-Ray Disc players”</em> — <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray" target="_blank">Wikipedia-Blu-Ray Disc </a></p></blockquote>
<p>As it stands, typically NOT.</p>
<p>Furthermore, I’ve discovered that not all recordable media are created equal. A lot of users have had real problems with Memorex DVD Media. I have a stack of coasters to attest to that. The cost or brand of recordable media seem to have little to do with quality of the discs.</p>
<p>So at this point I am throwing up the hands, and like a professional that I am, sought the help of <strong>other pros</strong>. I started looking into <strong>Video Production Houses</strong> in my region to see about having my finished content authored into something playable on my client’s gear.</p>
<p>The trip was not over. One company’s web site looked promising, but after browsing I could find NO PHONE NUMBER, NO ADDRESS, NO E-MAIL ADDRESS or even a contact page. Well, what the FRAK is up with that? I was able to look them up with Google&#8230; but if they don’t want to be contacted. Fine with Me. And this could be <a href="http://community.livejournal.com/designrants/597720.html" target="_blank">a whole separate (less polite) rant</a>.</p>
<p>Two other outfits that were quite sympathetic to my situation actually had to <em>turn down </em>my project. Blu-ray was too new, too finicky, and <em>they just didn&#8217;t have the gear and the capability</em>. One <a href="http://www.rdpvideo.com/">Helpful Local Outfit</a> looked at my material was able to refer me to the <a href="http://www.ascentmedia.com/" target="_blank">Big Important Video Producer</a> that could assist me.</p>
<p>Which was how I got an inkling of how difficult a format Blu-ray was. To create &#8211; encode and author<em> a single disc</em> would cost in the hundreds of dollars. Additional discs need to be individually encoded, <em>over a hundred dollars EACH</em>. Which may be one reason why the Studios chose Blu-Ray over HD-DVD – very difficult to duplicate.</p>
<p>After all this, the client and I agreed that the way to do it would be to connect a PC to the big lobby screen and run the Digital version of the video to the screen.</p>
<p>So while this digital drama plays out, and I wait to get paid, some observations. Amazing things have happened in the world of Digital Video, but we’re obviously not there yet. Eventually, the big tech players, The studios, gear manufacturers, computer makers and software developers will stop trying to STAB each other and get around the big table and decide what’s going to be what with Blu-ray. Equipment and software will become more capable and grow more affordable. Media compatibility hopefully will improve. As HD  content, and consumer acceptance, gains traction, the demand for the ability to create and deliver HD content on the Personal Computer will only grow. And the tech companies will surely respond. At the end of the day, they can usually be relied on to try and follow the money.</p>
<p>Sometimes that works out for both content creators and consumers.</p>
<p>LINKS &amp; RESOURCES</p>
<p><strong>Blu-Ray Disc Format</strong><br />
<a href="http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/steve-jobs-calls-blu-ray-a-bag-of-hurt/" target="_blank">http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/14/steve-jobs-calls-blu-ray-a-bag-of-hurt/</a><br />
<a href="http://theappleblog.com/2009/08/04/will-apple-ever-support-blu-ray/" target="_blank">http://theappleblog.com/2009/08/04/will-apple-ever-support-blu-ray/</a><br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray</a><br />
<a href="http://apcmag.com/analysis_no_bluray_on_macs_and_nobody_cares.htm" target="_blank">http://apcmag.com/analysis_no_bluray_on_macs_and_nobody_cares.htm</a></p>
<p><strong>Video Production Houses</strong><br />
<a href="http://www.ascentmedia.com/" target="_blank">Ascent Media</a><br />
<a href="http://www.rdpvideo.com/">RDP Video Producti0ons</a></p>
<p><strong>Roxio Toast</strong></p>
<p>http://www.roxio.com/enu/products/toast/default.html</p>
<p><strong>Apple Video Applications</strong><br />
<a href="http://www.apple.com/ilife/imovie/" target="_blank">www.apple.com/ilife/imovie/</a><br />
<a href="http://www.apple.com/ilife/idvd/" target="_blank">www.apple.com/ilife/idvd/</a><br />
<a href="http://www.apple.com/finalcutexpress" target="_blank">www.apple.com/finalcutexpress</a></p>
<p><strong>Sharp AQUOS<br />
</strong><a href="http://www.sharpusa.com/ForHome/HomeEntertainment/LCDTVs.aspx" target="_blank">www.sharpusa.com/ForHome/HomeEntertainment/LCDTVs.aspx</a><br />
<a href="http://www.sharpusa.com/ForHome/HomeEntertainment/BluRayDisc.aspx" target="_blank">www.sharpusa.com/ForHome/HomeEntertainment/BluRayDisc.aspx</a></p>
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		<title>Getting at Your Web Stuff</title>
		<link>http://www.fantastic-realities.com/studio_blog/2009/07/getting-at-your-web-stuff/</link>
		<comments>http://www.fantastic-realities.com/studio_blog/2009/07/getting-at-your-web-stuff/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 02:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kurt Griffith</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Adobe]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Apple]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Blogging]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[CMS]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Content Management Systems]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Contribute]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[CSS]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Development]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hosting]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[HTML]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Microsoft]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Tools]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Web Design]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Wordpress]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[XHTML]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fantastic-realities.com/studio_blog/?p=63</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One of the requests that I often get from clients is that they want to know how to do simple revisions and update their web site content for themselves. Of course they are concerned in this difficult economy about paying my fair, but non-trivial designer's rate for what might be a trivial update or minor correction. Or you might just want more control of your own content.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="wp-caption aligncenter" style="width: 460px"><img title="Web Code in Text Wrangler" src="http://www.fantastic-realities.com/projects/images/WebCode_450.png" alt="HTML code in Text Wrangler. Want a piece of this action?" width="450" height="338" /><p class="wp-caption-text">HTML code in Text Wrangler. Want a piece of this action?</p></div>
<p>Hello everyone who may or not be paying attention.</p>
<p>I know it’s been a while but I was a bit distracted by some very consuming system issues with my workstation. But that cautionary tale is a subject<em> for another post</em>. Seriously. Cautionary. Tale. But not now.</p>
<p>One of the requests that I often get from clients is that <strong>they want to know how to do simple revisions and update their web site content for themselves.</strong> Of course they are concerned in this difficult economy about paying my fair, but non-trivial designer&#8217;s rate for what might be a trivial update or minor correction. I do have a minimum quarter hour charge. Which is seriously, just about how long it takes to read the email, take the call, jot a note or two, fire up <em>Dreamweaver</em> or a text editor, an FTP client, log into the hosting provider&#8217;s Control Panel, upload the fix, revision or update and then log it on the timesheet. So I do see their point. Or you might just want more control of your own content.<span id="more-63"></span></p>
<p>Let me diverge for a moment, and mention that there are do-it-yourself options out there if your needs and design requirements are relatively straightforward. Many of the Hosting providers out there have relatively simple, template based, drop-in-your-content web site plans, such as <a href="http://www.godaddy.com/hosting/website-builder.aspx" target="_blank">GoDaddy’s “<strong>Web Site Tonight</strong>”</a> feature. There are also services like <a href="http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/frontpage/default.aspx" target="_blank">Microsoft&#8217;s <strong>FrontPage</strong></a>, <a href="http://www.apple.com/ilife/iweb/" target="_blank">Apple’s <strong>iWeb</strong></a>, and Yahoo’s <strong><a href="http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting/" target="_blank">Small Business Web Sites</a></strong>&#8230; etc. But these ARE template based sites and they can be perfectly adequate, but they’ll look like a LOT of other sites out there without a lot of distinction.</p>
<p>Another approach is to construct a web presence around a blog, either through your hosting provider and your own domain, or use one of the well rounded services such as <strong><a href="http://wordpress.com/" target="_blank">WordPress</a>, <a href="https://www.blogger.com/start" target="_blank">Blogger</a>, <a href="http://www.typepad.com/pro/index-2.html" target="_blank">Typepad</a>, <a href="http://www.livejournal.com/" target="_blank">Live Journal</a></strong> and the like.</p>
<p>But if you’re working with someone like me, you’re probably wanting something more custom designed and distinctive in the first place; really marrying your branding and message to the site design. You might want to have more complex functionality or technology on your site. Perfectly fair, and how I make a respectable chunk of my livelihood. But you might not want to bug me about changing one paragraph in your Mission Statement, or correcting a misspelling in your bio. Or you’d like to toss up a news item, and I am off in a tent  in the woods that week, or buried with other client&#8217;s projects at that moment. Hey, it could happen.</p>
<p>Anyway, there are three general approaches to getting into the guts of your site.</p>
<h3>Learn Web Coding</h3>
<p>The first is the cheapest, since it can be done with any text editor and an FTP client. That would be litreally learning enough HTML and web tech to <em>actually edit the underlying code</em> of your web pages and upload the changed pages back to the hosting server. As you can imagine, this does imply the heaviest learning curve. And of course, depending on just how intricate the site’s design is, getting into the designer’s code could be problematical. If you’re not careful and meticulous, its <em>real easy to break stuff</em>. And then you’ll be calling your Webmaster or Designer and tossing a bit more than a quarter hour for cleanups. Of course with more modern coding techniques, particularly CSS, and XML, sites can be much more modular and the site’s content and its design can be separated. This makes updates and revisions much less tedious.</p>
<h3>Use Web Access Software</h3>
<p>Another approach is to use an end-client piece of software that allows users to access the site from their own computers, and make their edits in a more understandable format. One example is <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/contribute/" target="_blank">Adobe <strong>Contribute</strong></a>. This application allows access to a web site, but also lets the Designer/Webmaster restrict access to parts of the site that ought to <em>not be messed with</em>. The application even allows users to generate new pages and links, upload images and documents, while maintaining the site design and structure. Different users can be assigned different roles and levels of access. The interface is similar to Microsoft <em>Word</em>, so it’s a familiar way to work and training is much simpler.</p>
<p>This approach is a bit more costly, as you have to buy specialty software, and it requires the Site Designer to set up the site for access. There is also some training time involved, but not as much as learning full blown web coding. A mid-line solution for moderately complex sites, and reasonably tech-comfortable users.</p>
<h3>Use a Content Management System</h3>
<p>For more sophisticated sites, or for dead simple access, or <em>both</em>, is the use of a <strong><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_content_management_system" target="_blank">Content Management System</a></strong>. Using a CMS, the end user typically has a web based interface to add or modify content on their site. The software keeps the design elements and the content separated, and the user content is stored in a database on the server. This is the most costly up-front approach, as the site has to be configured from the ground up to use the technology, and set-up is more involved than a basic HTML, XHTML and CSS, site.  All the back end software is stored on the hosting server, and all the user needs is a web browser and the access credentials. This can be a very attractive solution where there is a lot of time sensitive or dynamic content, and the site gets frequent updates.</p>
<p>More and more, business sites are using CMS technology and more hosting providers are offering open source <a href="http://hostingconnection.godaddy.com/AllApplications.aspx" target="_blank"><strong>Web Application Software</strong></a> to Web Developers and Webmasters as part of their hosting packages. It does take more than a bit of specialty skill to set up, but once in place, can be very effective and easy to maintain. The initial cost may be a bit more than a basic HTML or CSS based site, but maintenance and updates can be cheaper over time. If you have a shopping cart or an e-commerce site, this is a form of Content Management, with software running on the web server tracking buyers, products, transactions.</p>
<p>However, none of the above typically allow the end user to significantly revise or alter the site design or graphic style. That type of work would require the re-involvement of the Web Designer and Developers. Of course, <em>if you had that skill set, you would BE the web Designer or Developer</em>, and you would already know this.</p>
<p>Still the whole point of hiring graphic or technical professionals is to free up your time to focus on your own particular vocation or specialty, and let us do our thing for you.</p>
<p>Next time, <em>losing the works</em>.  I hope I don’t keep you waiting so long for that one, its frakkin&#8217; <em>crazed</em>&#8230;</p>
<hr />
<h3><strong>Stufz </strong>(Resources)<strong>:</strong></h3>
<p>GoDaddy <strong>Web Site Tonight</strong>:<br />
<a href="http://www.godaddy.com/hosting/website-builder.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.godaddy.com/hosting/website-builder.aspx</a></p>
<p>Microsoft <strong>FrontPage</strong>: <a href="http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/frontpage/default.aspx" target="_blank"></p>
<p>http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/frontpage/default.aspx</a></p>
<p>Apple <strong>iWeb</strong>: <a href="http://www.apple.com/ilife/iweb/" target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/ilife/iweb/</a></p>
<p>Yahoo <strong>Small Business Web Sites</strong>:<br />
<a href="http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting/" target="_blank">http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting/</a><strong></strong></p>
<p><strong>WordPress</strong>: <a href="http://wordpress.com/" target="_blank">http://wordpress.com/</a></p>
<p><strong>Blogger/Blogspot</strong> : <a href="https://www.blogger.com/start" target="_blank">https://www.blogger.com/start</a><strong></strong></p>
<p><strong>TypePad</strong>: <a href="http://www.typepad.com/pro/index-2.html" target="_blank">http://www.typepad.com/</a><strong></strong></p>
<p><strong>Live Journal</strong>: <a href="http://www.livejournal.com/" target="_blank">http://www.livejournal.com/</a></p>
<p>Adobe <strong>Contribute</strong>: <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/contribute/" target="_blank">http://www.adobe.com/products/contribute/</a></p>
<p>Wikipedia: <strong>Web Content Management System</strong>:<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_content_management_system" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_content_management_system</a></p>
<p><strong>Open Source Applications</strong> at Godaddy:<a href="http://hostingconnection.godaddy.com/AllApplications.aspx" target="_blank"></p>
<p>http://hostingconnection.godaddy.com/AllApplications.aspx</a></p>
<p>(Crikey! I&#8217;m not even sure what all this stuff does&#8230; )</p>
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